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  •  Stop the Ratings Abuse (3.60)
    You get a "4" to counteract the incredibly undeserved "Troll" rating.

    I make no comment one way or the other on the content.

    Please re-read the ratings system folks.

    What is particularly troublesome is that this got a "0" from a "Trusted User."

    This kind of crap and the rampant diary abuse is making dKos a less and less attractive place to visit.

    •  who was it? (none)

      Learn how to talk with them about the 95% we have in common rather than argue and yell at each other about the 5% that divides us - H. Dean

      by Genf on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 08:16:49 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Ratings (4.00)
        are sadly being used because people are saying things we do not want to hear.  I was very negative last night about dems giving up, and got low ratings.

        I don't begrudge them voting their feelings and not strictly adhering to rating rules.

        People are raw with disappointment, anger, and despair.  At least for the next month or so (hell I might never get over this sadness) we should not rate down or up for that matter, just because they are saying things we like or don't like to hear.

        •  I don't agree (none)
          I've given out Troll ratings for two types of posts.  The first, when I've felt that the poster was excessively abusive in replying to someone who was just presenting his/her view without vitriol.  I do this even if the content of the abusive post has some merit.  When you have a counterargument that you think has substance, why not just go with the substance? Do you guys really think that adding abuse makes the substance stronger?

          Full disclosure: I posted a comment the other day that I thought would get "1": I was in "mother hen mode" and going after someone who was excessively abusive to someone pouring her heart out in a diary.  I didn't get that "1".  I probably should have.

          The other type of post I give "Troll" to is if the poster is being "just under the radar" abusive and I look 'em up and find that they they have at least a 1/2 dozen posts and all of their posts are major snarky criticisms of everyone else's suggestions and arguments.  It's easy to tear down arguments; harder to make them.

          I know our anger level is high right about now, but can we refrain from devouring each other?

          It reminds me of the Socialist Worker Party meetings I was dragged to by one of my loonier friends in college.  It was 1980 and the very end of the far-Communist-lefty movement. I only went to three of them, and the reason I went to more than one was because they were pure theater. All their meeting descended into name-calling and abusiveness.  It was fascinating to watch but it was a complete waste of energy on their parts.

          "I don't know if that ugly wall of suburbia has been put up to stop them getting in or us getting out." - Priscilla Queen of the Desert

          by Glinda on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 09:38:45 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Nicely put (none)
          You are a very attuned person. Still learning some of the features on DKos, I only realized yesterday what "rating" really was...and you are right, people are rating with their feelings. And that is understandable.  You get a four from me!

          Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

          by Revel on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 10:24:03 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  it was 'lawnorder' (none)
        this kind of bullshit goes on all of the time on this website.

        The zero ratings should be used only for censorship (i.e. REAL trolls).

      •  Me (none)
        But I only gave it because I knew you had enough "points" to keep your comment..

        I don't disagree with your criticism but I thought the way you expressed it was very disrespectful of Kos, Kerry, the Clintons and fellow democrats.

        There's a way to say the same thing without calling everyone an idiot, you know ?

        What's theoretical about it ??!?

        by lawnorder on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 09:29:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Rating system is worthless. (1.00)
      As if it does a damn thing? It's not like troll rated posts are invisible or anything. Besides, if someone rates you down, you can do the same in lame is that? It's like the Ebay system. Tit for tat. Fucking brilliant. Not.
      •  most people... (none)
        refrain from retaliatory troll ratings. It really works quite well. And Genf is fine because others gave her undeserved 3's and 4's for a pretty hostile and abusive post, to make up for the 0.

        Diebold Voting Machines-- because the one who counts the vote decides everything.

        by pacific city on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 08:55:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Comments ONLY dissaper w/ TWO troll ratings (none)
          One person can't "retaliate" and make a post dissapear.

          Posts only get ratings to count after 2 users rate it, and the resulting post rate is the average of all the users who rated it. Two troll ratings (0,0 or 0,1) can make a post "dissapear" but one troll rating alone doesn't do anything.

          So Genf's comments would only dissapear if the majority of the kossacks rated her zero or 1.

          I believe the ratings system is working.

          What's theoretical about it ??!?

          by lawnorder on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 01:58:35 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I find it useful (4.00)
        If I'm trying to skim dKos, which is very often since I don't have 12 hrs/day to read all of the main page and diary posts and threads, then I just search each page for the "4" comments and read further if I find something interesting.  While it's true that this system is not perfect and I often miss valuable insight from posts that were rated down for political reasons, it is better than trying to sift through a 400 comment thread with no ratings at all.  

        I think the problem is not the ratings system, but the abuse of the ratings system, which goes far deeper into the actual responses to posts that are deemed politically incorrect.  For example, in the run up to the election and even now, any criticism of Kerry is meet with heavy flames.  Many of the same people who attack Bush for his un-American methods of loyalty oaths and suppression of protest do exactly the same thing here at dKos by troll rating and name-calling any user who notes any negative characteristics of Kerry or his campaign.  For my attacks on Kerry I was personally called a "GOP stooge" by a very popular Kossack, when I had recently returned from volunteering 4 hours of my time to the Kerry campaign!  

        There seems to be an inflated sense among some Kossacks of the influence of the dKos comments section on national news coverage.  They speak of the need to show a united front to the media, all eyes of which are on dKos, so that we don't give Rove any ammo.  It's an interesting concept, but if Kos (who once called Kerry a "spineless ass," ever decided to use his blog as a propaganda tool of the Democratic party, then this site would cease to be the vibrant and creative discussion forum that it is.  Once we begin to self-censor our posts based on what we think corporate media/GOP want us to say for the purpose of exploitation, we've already compromised our principles and lost a bit of our souls.  Which is what I believe is the real reason Kerry lost to that idiot buffoon.


        "You go to your TV to turn your brain off. You go to your computer to turn your brain on." - Steve Jobs

        by Subterranean on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 09:39:48 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Disagree about the rampant diary abuse part (none)
      It can hardly be rampant diary abuse that people rampantly like and make them. They're intended to give people a voice.

      That they all pass by so quickly is a problem of organization: the list of them is too flat.

    •  not a supertroll... (none)
      but maybe she shouldn't put stuff like "don't be stupid kos" in all caps. It's rude and borders on abusive.

      Diebold Voting Machines-- because the one who counts the vote decides everything.

      by pacific city on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 08:52:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Isn't part of the Trusted User's task (none)
      to keep people from calling Kos, Kerry and other forum members "stupid" ?

      What's theoretical about it ??!?

      by lawnorder on Mon Nov 15, 2004 at 09:37:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Someone please explain ratings (none)
      I am new and can't figure out the ratings. Are they posted next to the subject line? And if so what do the numbers represent? Sorry about my ignorance, I do catch on quick though.

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